You’re looking at a piece of information. It’s not like you’re looking at an image, or at a list or a table. You’re looking at two pieces of information. The first is a little bit of information. The second is information. Information can help you figure out a whole lot of things. And I think that the way to go about this is to take the two parts and analyze them, see how the structure of them interacts. What happens if you take a number of them and merge them together, or where are you in their relationships? And so you want to get information from those and use it to figure out how to make better decisions about how it impacts the overall product.
Brett McKay: How do you know what that information doesn’t affect the overall product? Because if it’s changing, we already know that.
Paul Buchheit: So when I started at Apple and I was working at Steve and [crosstalk 00:14:42] and they were talking about an Apple product design, it was actually one of the first things that I did as a designer of iPhone designs and I had to sit down and talk to engineers about, “What would people think about if that came out?” It got to the point that the engineers I knew really weren’t that excited about this concept of being able to put the product out in the world so they actually said, “Oh man, who wants to sit across my desk from us and give us a real design opinion about a product they’ll never use?” No, the person that said that thought it was awesome. But then I went and I worked as a manager and I was doing the product design, and all I wanted was for my team to work on something I really didn’t care about, so I can go away on vacation and the people there don’t know that I used to design for them. So I’m the same guy, maybe I’m better now I can do the job in an environment I’m not comfortable.
Brett McKay: Now let’s back up so people know how you came about. In your last interview you talked about your early days on Apple and if that was your first Apple job like the first job you ever got? So let’s get into that. I’m curious.
Paul Buchheit: I was the CEO of Apple that I know about. My first job. They paid me an obscene amount of money. They hired me out of Cornell. I went to Cornell to be a